Taxonomic Merge 75752
(Guardado el 05/05/2020)
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Comentarios
Looking into this further, Trelease explicitly published "Q. × beadlei" for the hybrid with Q. prinus:
Q. alba × Q. prinus
https://www.biodiversitylibrary.org/item/31628#page/60/mode/1up
so according to the rules, that's what this name has to refer to. Since this combination was published later than Q. × saulii for the same cross, Q. × saulii is the correct name for the cross.
In line with the usage of the name you cite, Trelease indicated that he thought that "Q. prinus" referred only to the "cow chestnut oak" ("commonly known as Q. michauxii").
He therefore meant Q. × beadlei to apply to Q. alba × [entity "commonly known as Q. michauxii"], but that's not what he published the name as, so I think POWO is correct in reducing it to synonymy under Q. × saulii.
Despite doing all this legwork, I wasn't aware that people were currently using "Q. × beadlei" for Trelease's intended meaning (white oak x cow oak) rather than what he published (white oak × Q. prinus). But I see that this is the case. I'll undo this swap, so we can find the right name for the white oak × cow oak entity, since this is what people probably meant when they used this term on this website.
I'm sorry for the headache!
Interesting- I am not so familiar with nomenclatural rules. I am surprised that there is no provision for a case like this in which it is obvious that the author was misusing a name (prinus, in this case) to apply to a different entity (michauxii) than the one that name has been synonymized with (montana). In the Trelease citation you mention I see that just a few lines further up he notes Q. x saulii as the hybrid of Q. alba and Q. montana, clearly intending that this be understood as a different entity from what he describes as Q. x beadlei.
I note that POWO also includes Quercus prinus as a synonym for Quercus michauxii (http://plantsoftheworldonline.org/taxon/urn:lsid:ipni.org:names:216073-2#synonyms), not just Quercus montana. To my knowledge there is no other name published or used for the Q. alba x michauxii cross, and it seems to be used by a variety of authorities to refer to that cross. Is it possible this is more or less a clerical error on POWO's part, and that the synonymy that should have been applied in this case would be to regard Q. prinus as used by Trelease as Q. michauxii rather than Q. montana? Again, I don't entirely know how those rules work, but I would be surprised to hear they can't accommodate that when it would clearly seem like the sensible outcome.
One other note- NatureServe recognizes Q. x beadlei as distinct from Q. x saulii with the following comments:
"Kartesz (1999) and Flora North America vol. 3 both recognize this taxon, however, these sources report different species involved with the hybrid cross. Kartesz (1999) shows that the species involved in the hybrid cross are Q. alba and Q. michauxii, while Flora North America vol. 3 show Q. alba and Q. prinus as the species. Further, there are nomenclature differences between these sources Kartesz (1999) gives authorship to 'Trelease ex Palmer' while Flora North America vol. 3 gives authorship to Trelease."
Not sure if that helps!
The rules are frustrating. Especially when things are published in hardcopy-only books (like Kew likes to do!) available at only a few large research institutions.
The Palmer name might fix the problem, and enable us to keep using using Q. x beadlei as Trelease intended.
Thanks again for correcting this!
No problem, glad I could help.
Unless I'm misunderstanding this - this change was a good step in terms of curating in the direction of POWO which treats Quercus × beadlei as a synonym of Quercus × saulii
http://www.plantsoftheworldonline.org/?q=Quercus+beadlei
so unless I'm misunderstanding something there's no need to revert and this was a good step towards that end (of curating towards POWO)
if folks are proposing to deviate from POWO, lets open a separate flag to propose and discuss such a deviation
@loarie if that's the correct procedure for this case in which POWO doesn't make sense biologically, then yes, let's do that. Would the appropriate flag be opened on the merged taxon (Quercus x saulii) or the now-inactive taxon that needs to be separated back out (Quercus x beadlei)?
ok I'd recommend contacting Kew if you think they have an error. If you want iNat to deviate from Kew please flag Quercus × saulii if you're proposing a deviation from POWO and please describe the deviation you are proposing in detail.
I guess I'll try to contact Kew, for the moment, as this is definitely an error.
I received a response surprisingly quickly from Rafael Govaerts at Kew affirming the correction. He said it should appear on POWO this coming monday.
Quercus x beadlei refers to the cross of Quercus alba with Q. michauxii ("Swamp Chestnut" Oak) rather than Q. prinus/montana ("Chestnut" Oak).
https://plants.usda.gov/core/profile?symbol=QUBE
https://florida.plantatlas.usf.edu/Plant.aspx?id=4369
Quercus x beadlei should not be affected by changes to Q. prinus/montana naming as that is not one of the parents. I have observations of both Q. x saulii and Q. x beadlei- they are separate entities with different parentage and should not be synonymized. I have never seen Q. prinus listed as a parent for Q. x beadlei, perhaps that comes from misapplication of Q. prinus to Q. michauxii at some point past?